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drzach · 04-15-2009 15:16:15

I happened upon

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from newwest.net, called "Thomas Jefferson: 'Atheist and Leveler from Virginia.'"

From that article:

During the 1800 election campaign, rumors were spread that, if elected president, Jefferson would confiscate all the Bibles in the land and replace them with his own version, one in which all references to miracles and the Resurrection were deleted.

However...

In a 1801 letter to Moses Robinson Jefferson wrote that "the Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of its benevolent instructor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind."

But then again...

Jefferson believed the propagation of religious dogma was the cause of much evil in the world, and he was convinced that reason alone could guide the moral life. In a 1787 letter Jefferson had this piece of advice for his nephew Peter Carr: "Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of God."

I think this is what makes Jefferson such a fascinating historical character; he apparent willingness to adopt seemingly contradictory views as fundamentally true.

History is not my strong suit- what of the religious opinions of the other American founders? We often hear that they "intended this country to be a Christian nation," but is that true?

greenlion · 06-04-2010 15:14:14

Don't worry. Conservatives Christian groups are coordinating to take Jefferson and other liberal thinkers our of our History curriculums. So in a few years the answer every school kid will have to your question will be "who is Jefferson?"

gimpslice · 06-28-2010 22:47:30

Hi all! I am new to the site, so please be gentle. Dr. Zach, I have been listening to your Evolution 101 podcast (about 20 episodes into it) and wanted to thank you for the amazing amount of information you are packing into each episode. One of the best podcasts I have ever heard, thank you.

I have heard this claim by my fundamentalist in-laws time and again. I have had some pretty interesting discussions about it and here are some of the fruits of that. First, the two documents we have to look at for the evidence are in the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.

The Declaration of Independence gives credit to the "Creator." This is a deist expression, not a christian. And after the one mention in the beginning, it is not mentioned again.

The US Constitution also contains a single reference to religion, but is a general statement on ALL religions. It is the condition that no public office shall have a religious test.

I think it is a stretch to think the founding fathers simply forgot to include the premise that the country they are forming is going to be based upon a specific religion.

The next piece is about the Treaty of Tripoli of 1797. This was signed by John Adams within 20 years of the founding of the current US Government. This treaty was put into place to have us aid Tripoli (modern day Libya). The Tripoli nation was worried that we didn't like muslims and that we wouldn't help them against the Barbary Pirates. Here is article 11:

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Since I cannot find or haven't been shown anything even remotely as explicit as this statement supporting that we are a christian nation ratified, I have to draw the conclusion that the premise is false.

Thanks for the eyeball time.

Jody

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#1 04-15-2009 15:16:15

Religion of the American Founders

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#2 06-04-2010 15:14:14

Re: Religion of the American Founders

#3 06-28-2010 22:47:30

Re: Religion of the American Founders

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drzach Moderator	Religion of the American Founders I happened upon Sorry. You have to be registered to access this content. from newwest.net, called "Thomas Jefferson: 'Atheist and Leveler from Virginia.'" From that article: During the 1800 election campaign, rumors were spread that, if elected president, Jefferson would confiscate all the Bibles in the land and replace them with his own version, one in which all references to miracles and the Resurrection were deleted. However... In a 1801 letter to Moses Robinson Jefferson wrote that "the Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of its benevolent instructor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind." But then again... Jefferson believed the propagation of religious dogma was the cause of much evil in the world, and he was convinced that reason alone could guide the moral life. In a 1787 letter Jefferson had this piece of advice for his nephew Peter Carr: "Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of God." I think this is what makes Jefferson such a fascinating historical character; he apparent willingness to adopt seemingly contradictory views as fundamentally true. History is not my strong suit- what of the religious opinions of the other American founders? We often hear that they "intended this country to be a Christian nation," but is that true?

greenlion New member	Re: Religion of the American Founders Don't worry. Conservatives Christian groups are coordinating to take Jefferson and other liberal thinkers our of our History curriculums. So in a few years the answer every school kid will have to your question will be "who is Jefferson?"

gimpslice New member	Re: Religion of the American Founders Hi all! I am new to the site, so please be gentle. Dr. Zach, I have been listening to your Evolution 101 podcast (about 20 episodes into it) and wanted to thank you for the amazing amount of information you are packing into each episode. One of the best podcasts I have ever heard, thank you. I have heard this claim by my fundamentalist in-laws time and again. I have had some pretty interesting discussions about it and here are some of the fruits of that. First, the two documents we have to look at for the evidence are in the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution. The Declaration of Independence gives credit to the "Creator." This is a deist expression, not a christian. And after the one mention in the beginning, it is not mentioned again. The US Constitution also contains a single reference to religion, but is a general statement on ALL religions. It is the condition that no public office shall have a religious test. I think it is a stretch to think the founding fathers simply forgot to include the premise that the country they are forming is going to be based upon a specific religion. The next piece is about the Treaty of Tripoli of 1797. This was signed by John Adams within 20 years of the founding of the current US Government. This treaty was put into place to have us aid Tripoli (modern day Libya). The Tripoli nation was worried that we didn't like muslims and that we wouldn't help them against the Barbary Pirates. Here is article 11: Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. Since I cannot find or haven't been shown anything even remotely as explicit as this statement supporting that we are a christian nation ratified, I have to draw the conclusion that the premise is false. Thanks for the eyeball time. Jody